STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
About one-third of The Washington Post's employees lost their jobs on Wednesday. The paper owned by Jeff Bezos, who has a little money, has been losing money and readers. And the most visible part of the Post's strategy to recover has involved departures and layoffs. Let's talk more about this with Marty Baron. He was the Post's executive editor from 2013 to 2021, also worked for Jeff Bezos. And he's on the line. Good morning.
MARTY BARON: Good morning.
INSKEEP: I want to first figure out how it matters because, you know, companies lay off people all the time. Sometimes it makes sense. What does it mean when hundreds of journalists are laid off specifically from The Washington Post?
BARON: Well, in this case, it means that you don't have people overseas who are on the ground seeing what's happening. Looks like the Middle East coverage will be eviscerated. You don't have people in Ukraine. You don't have people in Europe covering the frictions between the United States and Europe the way that they should. You don't have people on the ground in the D.C. area covering what happens there. And we have to realize that a lot of what happens in D.C. is of national consequence - the coverage of January 6 riots, the coverage of the George Floyd protests, the coverage of the National Guard deployment. You don't have a lot of people on the ground covering that in the way that you should.
INSKEEP: I was a little shocked by one number. Apparently, the Post went from about 40 people covering the metro area, which was already reduced from prior years, and they're going down to 12, which just doesn't seem like quite enough to get a sense of what's going on in a metro area of millions.
BARON: Well, yeah. It's one of the biggest metro areas in the country. And it's not just the District of Columbia, we have to remember. I mean, this is northern Virginia you have to cover, and you cover a huge portion of Maryland as well. So - and as I said, this is a place where big national news occurs on a regular basis.
INSKEEP: How does this compare to the way that Jeff Bezos backed the paper when you became executive editor a little more than a decade ago? Because as I recall, in 2013, the Post was also in trouble, also losing readers, also losing money.
BARON: Yes, it's very different. I mean, when he came in, he set a real strategy. He said that we needed to be national and international. We couldn't just be a regional publication, which we had largely been, with the exception of politics. So he had a clear strategy, and he encouraged us to think of it in a digital way because now we could deliver our news without having to deliver a newspaper. And then he invested in the initiatives that we proposed, and pretty much all of those initiatives proved to be successful. He invested also in the technology of the news organization.
And look, the Post in 2015 and in 2018 was named the most innovative media company in the world by Fast Company magazine. In fact, in 2018, it was named the eighth most innovative company in the world. So there was a lot of innovation going on, and there was a tremendous amount of interest. And we were delivering news in the way that people wanted to receive it.
INSKEEP: Although, there was this problem. In the early 2020s, a lot of news organizations lost audience. People tuned out from the news for a while. The Post really suffered. It hasn't been making money. Will Lewis is the publisher who's been brought in to try to fix things. We haven't heard much from him. As a matter of fact, he did not show up for the call announcing the layoffs, we're told. But it's said that the Post is trying to pursue a different strategy, a different business model, trying to grow readers in a different way, trying to be a little bit more centrist in its politics. Looking at it from the outside, do you feel that you understand what the strategy is supposed to be to regrow this paper?
BARON: I do not understand what the strategy is. You know, you were talking about when Bezos bought the Post in 2013. I did understand the strategy then, and we pursued it. But I haven't heard them articulate a clear strategy of, what is it that they intend to do? How do they intend to approach it? And how are they deploying resources for that? Look, I mean, as you pointed out, the publisher wasn't even visible yesterday. He's been largely an invisible publisher. He hasn't spoken up. And they've announced several resets in the last several years, but all those resets have been nothing more than retreats in terms of staffing. And I haven't heard about any innovation or seen much innovation myself.
INSKEEP: If Lewis were to call you and say, OK, I hear you complaining - what would you do? I mean, what's the advice you'd give him?
BARON: Well, (laughter) asking for instant advice here. Well, look, I mean, I think the way that people are consuming information is very different these days. They face enormous challenges, there's no question about it. And most recently, artificial intelligence has changed things. People just search for answers, and they get them on their laptop or what have you. So, you know, one thing that we see is a lot of short-form video as a way of communicating with people. And clearly, the Post needs to develop in that way.
INSKEEP: OK. The struggle goes on. Marty Baron is former executive editor of The Washington Post. Thanks so much.
BARON: Thank you.
INSKEEP: Take care.
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