A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
We go now to Vicky Ward. She's an investigative journalist who profiled Jeffrey Epstein for Vanity Fair in 2003, and she has been following this story ever since. Vicky, we just heard some of what we're still learning about Jeffrey Epstein from the documents released by Congress. What has stood out to you so far?
VICKY WARD: I think what stood out is, how - I mean, I was surprised how obsessed Jeffrey Epstein was with Donald Trump for years and years and years after they had reportedly stopped speaking in 2004. The fact that over 50% of the emails that were put out last week by Congress that came from the estate were Epstein discussing Donald Trump, I think, was very, very telling.
I thought it was also very interesting that the email Jeffrey Epstein sort of sent to himself, a kind of memo, if you will...
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
WARD: ...And he then forwarded on to the journalist Michael Wolff in 2019, the year when it sort of became clear that the noose was tightening around Epstein, the year when - just right after the Miami Herald had done its brilliant series about him, when Congress was starting to bang the drum, saying why has this man avoided justice for so long...
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
WARD: ...Epstein sits down and he writes this sort of memo, and in it, he documents what he thinks are - Trump has done financially, back in 2004.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. It's like he's angered or hurt by their friendship breakup.
WARD: Yes.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
WARD: Well, I think the other email to that end that was interesting to me was the one in 2011 when he wrote to Ghislaine Maxwell, have you noticed the dog that didn't bark yet? It's Donald Trump. And I thought that was interesting because you have to remember the context of that. Spring 2011 was when Virginia Roberts Giuffre first publicly spoke to a newspaper, and that photograph of herself with Prince Andrew and Ghislaine Maxwell in the background, supposedly taken by Jeffrey Epstein, was first published in the Mail on Sunday.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
WARD: And the reason that I, you know - and the articles at that time talked about the men that Virginia Roberts had met through Epstein, Trump was not named, but he was mentioned as somebody who was in Epstein's circles. And the reason I mention all of this is because Epstein did believe that - he believed, doesn't mean it's true - that the person who went to the Palm Beach law authorities, who went to the local police and told them about the girls was, in fact, Trump...
MARTÍNEZ: Oh, wow.
WARD: ...And that after this - after relations between them soured over this acquisition of a mansion.
MARTÍNEZ: Vicky, it's worth noting that President Trump could have ordered these files to be released on his own without needing an act of Congress. So when we think about what's left in the files, do you think that there is anything there that could lead to criminal charges for someone - for someone that's in these files or do - is it, what we have left at this point, just shaming by Epstein association?
WARD: I think the latter. I think if there were really going to be criminal charges, those would have been brought already. I don't - I think you've seen the women on Capitol Hill, the survivors, how are increasingly gaining their power, finding their voices, and I'm sure that they would not have rested if there was someone out there who they believed criminal charges needed to be brought against.
But I do think that all the people who were complicit around Jeffrey Epstein, who knew what was going on, who stayed in touch with him, as your reporter pointed out, knowing that he was a convicted sex offender, are likely to be shamed and embarrassed, as they should.
MARTÍNEZ: One more thing. Just a few seconds to go, Vicky. Do you think the Epstein victims in this process so far are getting as close to healing as they can possibly get?
WARD: Yeah. I spoke to one of them yesterday, and she said, it feels like a victory. It feels like we've been seen and people care about us for the first time.
MARTÍNEZ: Investigative reporter, Vicky Ward. Vicky, thank you.
WARD: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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