: [POST-BROADCAST CORRECTION March 13, 2026: A previous version of this story quoted a Variety article that incorrectly stated the percentage of Oscars that have been awarded to Black women is 0.006%. In fact, the percentage is 0.6%.]
AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Remember the zoot suits and slate-gray coats that Denzel Washington wore in the film "Malcolm X"?
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "MALCOLM X")
DENZEL WASHINGTON: (As Malcolm X) Before there was any such thing as a Republican or a Democrat, we were Black. Before there was any such thing as a mason or an elder, we were Black.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #1: (As character) Yeah.
CHANG: Or consider the mural-inspired color palette of the men and women in "Amistad."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "AMISTAD")
ANTHONY HOPKINS: (As John Quincy Adams) If we are to have any semblance of order in this court, your Honor...
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Give us, us free.
ALLAN RICH: (As Judge Judson) Have your seats. Quiet down (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR #2: (As character) Give us, us free.
CHANG: Or what about those Afro-futuristic designs in "Black Panther"?
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BLACK PANTHER")
CHADWICK BOSEMAN: (As T'Challa) Wakanda will no longer watch from the shadows. We cannot. We must not.
CHANG: All of these films have one very important thing in common - the history-making costume designer Ruth E. Carter. She was nominated for an Oscar for all of these movies and took home two Academy Awards for her work in the "Black Panther" franchise. And her latest nod for costume design in "Sinners" now makes her the most nominated Black woman in any category in Oscar's history. Ruth E. Carter joins us now. Welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. Welcome to NPR West, and congratulations (laughter).
RUTH E CARTER: Thank you, Ailsa. Thank you for having me.
CHANG: Oh, my God. It's so good to have you here in person. Can I just ask, what does that distinction alone feel like for you - being the Black woman with the most Academy Award nominations in history?
CARTER: It's a long journey to here`, and I've always felt very passionate about telling the African diaspora through film and through cinema. I didn't expect this to come this way. But when I think of how much work there is that this is shedding light on, I'm so proud.
CHANG: Well, let's talk about this latest project, "Sinners." This is the work that earned you the latest nomination. The movie - you know, it was set in the 1930's Mississippi Delta. Was there a central theme or goal that you started with when you approached designing the costumes for this whole world that Ryan Coogler created and directed?
CARTER: Yes. There was a central theme, and it was the story of the blues.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TRAVELIN'")
MILES CATON: (Singing) Travelin'. I don't know why in the world I'm here.
CARTER: I came into this loving to recreate Black history. I was well-versed at, like, how I would compile the things that I needed to tell this story, but really what made it rich was that I could fill in some of the stories that, you know, were gaps. Like...
CHANG: Yeah.
CARTER: ...You know...
CHANG: You saw your role kind of as a historian.
CARTER: I really saw my role, and I could tell the story of the great migration. I could sell the story of sharecroppers, and I could implore a lot of things that I had learned along the way about aging and color palettes. And I thought about Norman Rockwell and how this palette was very simple, and Jacob Lawrence, or how the colors just bled together and really made a beautiful composition.
CHANG: And I also read that you approached costume design in the movie "Sinners" as a way to safeguard visual truth about Black working-class life. Can I ask you, how do you think that truth has gotten distorted, at least in some movies, when you look at the costumes in those movies?
CARTER: A lot of times, we want to highlight the suffering. And within the suffering, there is celebration. There is joy. There is another pathway to liberation. Those are the things that we highlighted with "Sinners." We were able to show the sharecroppers and the tattered clothing and the sweat. But we also showed how music created a world for them so that they could escape the hardships of the times and be joyous even if laws were created to separate us and to strip the culture. They were able to maintain a sense of culture.
CHANG: What struck me was the variety of the looks among all the characters.
CARTER: Yeah.
CHANG: 'Cause there's Smoke and Stack, the twins played by Michael B. Jordan - even the contrast between how Smoke and Stack were dressed. Like, Smoke's clothes had sort of a boxier fit with the denim hat - more working, more everyman. And Stack has, like, his three-piece suit, his pocket watch. Same actor in both cases, but you could differentiate between the two characters. What did you want to get across in that contrast between the two twins?
CARTER: We separated the fitting room into two colors. One side was blue. The other side was red.
CHANG: Yeah.
CARTER: As we discovered who Stack was, and we put that red hat on, and we tailored his suit to the body - a lot more self-conscious. As we put the hat on him, Ryan sees this red hat, and he freaks out, how he just loves it. And, you know, before long, the people in the office was like, hey, Ruth, what happened with the red hat? I've been hearing about this red hat. So when it's right, you all feel it.
CHANG: Yeah.
CARTER: And...
CHANG: And by the way, this is a red hat you found on Melrose in LA.
CARTER: I found this at a hat shop.
(LAUGHTER)
CHANG: Not in New Orleans.
CARTER: Sometimes that's the way it goes.
CHANG: Yeah.
CARTER: There it was, like...
CHANG: Wow.
CARTER: ...Calling my name in this tiny, little shop.
CHANG: See, that's what's fascinating to me, because part of costume design is the quest you go on to find the exact perfect pieces. And so when I was watching this movie, I thought, oh, my God, this is Ruth E. Carter's first horror film, right? Like, this is a gory, bloody movie. How did it feel to watch blood - fake blood - gets splashed on some of these beautiful pieces that you...
CARTER: Yeah. That was...
CHANG: ...Had artfully curated (laughter)?
CARTER: Yeah. Seeing blood squirted on these beautiful pieces was devastating.
CHANG: (Laughter).
CARTER: I have to admit, I kind of forgot all about the vampire element, the blood element.
CHANG: (Laughter).
CARTER: I was looking at the great migration, and then blood happened.
CHANG: Right.
CARTER: So you can imagine the amount of multiples we've had.
CHANG: Yeah. So meticulous. All right, Ruth, let's talk about the larger picture of your huge career. Because outside of the movies we've already mentioned, you have worked on more than 50 major motion pictures - many with Spike Lee, now with Ryan Coogler. I want to read a line from a Variety article on your Academy Award nominations and wins.
Quote, "since 1929, over 3,100 Oscar statuettes have been awarded, and only 20 are in the possession of Black women."
Ruth, what does that say to you about how Hollywood supports and recognizes Black creatives?
CARTER: It chokes me up to hear those numbers. Hollywood was not built around our stories or our even inclusion. And that's why it's only now that the Ryan Cooglers and the Spike Lees and John Singletons are celebrated for paving the way.
When I first started to work with Spike, he would often say we need to remember that we can be artists also behind the camera, and that fueled me to bring on other people of color that could exercise their craft and see me as someone who was a leader in that quest. And I think that being the most nominated woman in Oscar history is great, but it's kind of a little bit for the Oscars, and for the Academy. It's calling them out a little bit because it shouldn't be that way.
CHANG: Costume designer Ruth E. Carter, whose work on "Sinners" has earned her fifth Oscars nomination. Thank you so much, and congratulations, Ruth.
CARTER: Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TRAVELIN'")
CATON: (Singing) 'Cause the woman that I'm loving, she don't want me around here no more. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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