LEILA FADEL, HOST:
The United Nations Development Program has a team on the ground in Gaza helping to clear rubble and rebuild infrastructure in a reconstruction effort that could take decades. Jaco Cilliers is helping to lead that project. He is special representative of the administrator for U.N.'s Program of Assistance to the Palestinian People, and he joins me now from Gaza. Good morning, and thank you for being with us.
JACO CILLIERS: Good morning. Very nice to be with you.
FADEL: So if you could just describe what you're seeing right now, the scale of the damage.
CILLIERS: Yes. I'm currently in Deir al-Balah, which is the center part of Gaza. I was in Gaza City earlier this morning to visit some of our projects and initiatives. And I can tell you, as you drive through Gaza, there's really not a single place where you can find a building or an apartment that is still standing or that haven't been damaged by the war. You see people digging through rubble, looking for any types of possession that they can start rebuilding their lives with. The sad part for me is looking at children as young as 5 years old that are looking for water - standing in lines for water and looking for food.
FADEL: Wow.
CILLIERS: And they should be in school, and they haven't been in school the last two years.
FADEL: So where do you even start with this? I mean, I know that you said earlier this week in a briefing that the U.N.'s development program has already cleared 3,100 truckloads of rubble. What happens with that rubble, and where to begin?
CILLIERS: Yes. Removing the rubble will be the first challenge. Just to give you an idea of how much we're talking about, if you build a 12-meter wall around Central Park and you fill that, that's the amount of rubble that needs to be cleared. As was mentioned previously also, there are also unexploded ordnances, or bombs, within that rubble. So that have to be cleared first. But what we are doing is taking the rubble. We're sorting it, and then we're taking it to plants where we crush it into finer material so that it can be recycled and reused again. For instance, we pave roads with it. We create the bases for tanks, and we also look forward to using that in reconstruction material in the future.
FADEL: And is that because of Israel's past bans on construction materials, like cement, from entering Gaza?
CILLIERS: That is one of the challenges we face, especially for the rebuilding efforts, but it is also partly that we need big equipment that is not being allowed in. Currently, we're using contractors, but the majority of their big construction equipment have either been damaged or is very old. They haven't been able to bring in also parts to service these equipment. So having the - both the infrastructure, the resources - i.e. funding - but also the equipment will be very important to start this initial (ph).
FADEL: What about other things, like basic utilities, electricity, water, waste management? Also, are there bodies under the rubble? Is - are you finding bodies?
CILLIERS: All of the issues you mentioned are incredibly important for the reconstruction to begin. I can tell you, I was yesterday in Firas Market, which is a central market in Gaza City. It was about between 8 and 10 meters high. It was filling the whole market, and all solid waste have been moved there. You can imagine the health risk and the environmental risk for something like that. There's also problems with water and sewerage. People are not getting water. The systems are not in place to deliver water, so the trucking has to be done. We, for instance, deliver about 300,000 liters of water that are also servicing various people through their needs.
And, unfortunately, the last issue you mentioned is also a reality. There are still bodies in the debris. We discovered three bodies when we were clearing...
FADEL: Wow.
CILLIERS: ....A mosque about two months ago. Then you have to follow procedures. You have to identify the bodies, you know, also let the family members know. And then there's a process of also religious burial that you have to respect.
FADEL: That was Jaco Cilliers with the U.N.'s Program of Assistance to the Palestinian People. He joined us from Gaza. Thank you so much for your time.
CILLIERS: Thank you.
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