AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Ukraine launched one of its largest aerial attacks of the war in recent days, sending hundreds of drones into Russia and killing at least six people. At the same time, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has admitted that his country is running low on air defense weapons, which Ukraine desperately needs to defend itself against Russian ballistic missiles. Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois has just returned from a congressional delegation trip to Europe, which included a stop in Ukraine, where he visited a drone facility and talked to leaders about the shortage of munitions. Welcome to the show, congressman.
RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI: Hey. Thank you, Ailsa.
CHANG: Thank you. OK, I want to start with Ukraine's need right now. It's running low, as we just mentioned, on air defense weapons. And one of our correspondents, Greg Myre, recently spoke to someone who lives in Kyiv about the fact that Russia's ballistic missiles are hitting Ukrainian cities far more often because the country is running out of American-made Patriot air defense missiles. Let's just take a listen to what this man said.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Through interpreter) There's no question these attacks will continue. The main question is, how many more buildings will be hit before our foreign partners give us more help, more Patriot missiles?
CHANG: So there's no question that there is a need in Ukraine. But what exactly are leaders in Ukraine asking for from the U.S.? Like, how did they make the case to you?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Look, they want to coproduce these missile systems. They want us to be able to, for instance, license the production of Patriots to Ukraine or to a country nearby that can then, you know, transport them to Ukraine. Unfortunately, because of bureaucratic inertia, there just hasn't been that coproduction possibility kind of materializing despite rhetoric from the White House to the contrary.
CHANG: When you say there's bureaucratic inertia, you're talking about inertia in the U.S. or in Ukraine?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yeah. I think, in the Pentagon, I think that they just - they're not willing to work with our friends, partners and allies to coproduce some of these munitions closer to where they are needed. And if we don't provide these Patriot missile batteries or other systems to the Ukrainians, they're going to suffer grievous damage to their, you know, energy infrastructure, for instance.
CHANG: But let me ask you, assuming that there is a way to overcome that bureaucratic inertia, as you put it, do you have a sense of what level of assistance to Ukraine could even pass in Congress right now?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, there is assistance happening as we speak to Ukraine right now, even from the American side. But remember, we started a program with our friends, partners and allies called the PURL's program, which allows for Europeans to purchase these particular systems on the Ukrainians' behalf and then donate them to the Ukrainians. And so right now, they just don't have stuff to purchase because we're running low on all of these munitions.
CHANG: I'm going to pivot now to the political situation in Ukraine because last night, the ousted Ukrainian Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov called for wartime elections. And as far as I understand, this is the most direct challenge to Zelenskyy that we've seen so far - right? - this call from Fedorov for a presidential election during wartime. Do you have any concerns about potential political unrest in Ukraine down the road?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Possibly. But on the other hand, I think that what I hear from Ukrainians across the political spectrum right now is almost a uniform resolve that first they have to make sure that they are unified in, you know, making the Russians feel the costs, not only in Ukraine, but also within Russia, and that Putin come to the table with an opportunity for a real settlement as opposed to some kind of a fake settlement.
CHANG: Well, this war, this war between Russia and Ukraine is now in its fifth year. Did you just get any sense while you were there in Ukraine of how people are dealing with all these years of war on a human level, how they're coping at this point?
KRISHNAMOORTHI: It's super tough. I mean, like, you know, I, you know, talk to people who are having to go into their bathtub at night because of the air raid sirens. And so I think that, you know, there's tremendous personal sacrifice that the Ukrainians are having to make. But at the same time, you know, these are some of the most courageous, brave people I've ever met. And I think that that, combined with their will to fight, means that they are going to continue to do well on the battlefield, as well as they possibly can. And, you know, we have to stand with them. There's just no other option.
CHANG: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, Democrat from Illinois. Thank you very much for your time today.
KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you, Ailsa. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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