AILSA CHANG, HOST:
"The Late Show With Stephen Colbert" is officially off the air, and taking its place tonight is a show called "Comics Unleashed." It's been around for years. It's a comedy roundtable produced by the media mogul Byron Allen.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "COMEDY UNLEASHED")
BYRON ALLEN: All right. We're going to have a great time tonight. Some very funny people here.
CHANG: Allen makes this show right here in Culver City, and so I headed over to his production studios yesterday to sit down with him. And in a wide-ranging conversation for NPR's video podcast Newsmakers, we talked about his love of comedy, his first writing job and how he made his fortune. Allen told me that airing his show in the 11:35 p.m. slot has been a lifelong dream.
ALLEN: I feel great. I feel amazing. You know, I tell everybody, I have been pursuing this for 51 years.
CHANG: And then the conversation got way more heated than I expected.
This show has had hundreds of episodes...
ALLEN: Oh, yeah.
CHANG: ...Since you started it...
ALLEN: Oh, yeah.
CHANG: ...About 20 years ago.
ALLEN: That's right.
CHANG: And let's be honest, Byron, your show...
ALLEN: Yes.
CHANG: ..."Comics Unleashed" is nowhere near as popular as a show that it's replacing, "Colbert."
ALLEN: I never said...
CHANG: OK.
ALLEN: ...It was.
CHANG: Wait, wait.
ALLEN: Yeah.
CHANG: For years, your show has not gotten great reviews.
ALLEN: Oh, yeah.
CHANG: Like, people on IMDb gave it a rating of 4.3...
ALLEN: Out of what?
CHANG: ...Out of 10.
ALLEN: That's too many.
CHANG: That's not a great rating, Byron.
ALLEN: Four-point-three...
CHANG: So I want to ask you...
ALLEN: That's too many.
CHANG: I want to ask you, are you doing anything different with this show this time around so you can make it better?
ALLEN: OK.
CHANG: Do you want to make it better?
ALLEN: OK. So we're going to talk about better.
CHANG: Yeah.
ALLEN: Let's talk about better. Am I going to do anything different?
CHANG: Yeah.
ALLEN: Absolutely not.
CHANG: Wait. But Byron, the reason I'm asking you if you're going to meet the moment...
ALLEN: (Laughter).
CHANG: ...Is you have an opportunity here. You have an opportunity to capture Stephen Colbert's audience, which is...
ALLEN: Wrong.
CHANG: Which is more than 2 1/2 million...
ALLEN: Wrong.
CHANG: ...Viewers per episode. Wait, you have no interest in their eyeballs?
ALLEN: Wrong. Well, here's what I have to say.
CHANG: OK.
ALLEN: Real simple, real simple. So now, when we started doing the show - right? - "Comics Unleashed," we're now celebrating our 20th anniversary, 20 years.
CHANG: Yeah.
ALLEN: You tell me what show could stay on the air that long. And I'm proud of it because we've had on over 1,000 comedians. And we've had on every shape, size, color - Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, gay, Jewish, Muslim. Now...
CHANG: I want to know...
ALLEN: If you're in show business...
CHANG: Have you had any conversations with anybody at CBS or at Paramount about boundaries not to cross or topics to avoid on "Comics Unleashed"?
ALLEN: Absolutely not.
CHANG: OK. How about if down the road...
ALLEN: Let me - no, no. You asked a question. I want to be clear.
CHANG: Well...
ALLEN: I have absolutely not had any conversations with anybody at CBS or Paramount about what to say or not to say, politics or no - or boundaries.
CHANG: If Paramount or if someone at CBS, down the road...
ALLEN: Yeah.
CHANG: ...Comes to you and says don't have that comic on your show or don't talk about that topic, what would you do in that scenario?
ALLEN: I would say, guys, enjoy the 150 million I save you.
CHANG: OK.
ALLEN: (Laughter).
CHANG: Now, we've been talking a lot about...
ALLEN: Ailsa, come on now. You have to talk to me business show, not show business. You have to - don't - you have to remember this, Ailsa...
CHANG: Let's talk about your business show.
ALLEN: No, no, no. Let's talk about business show. I pay them millions on top of the 150 they're saving. Oh, yes.
CHANG: You're saving them money.
ALLEN: Oh, yeah.
CHANG: And also you're offering...
ALLEN: And I'm paying them.
CHANG: You're also offering them comedy that you say will not be controversial. In fact...
ALLEN: I didn't say the word controversial.
CHANG: Well, OK. Let me...
ALLEN: No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
CHANG: ...Read your quote.
ALLEN: I didn't say...
CHANG: I'm going to read your quote.
ALLEN: ...Controversial.
CHANG: Byron, let me read your quote.
ALLEN: OK.
CHANG: These are your words.
ALLEN: OK.
CHANG: We are doing a show with nothing political...
ALLEN: That's right.
CHANG: ...Racist, sexist...
ALLEN: That's right.
CHANG: ...Or homophobic.
ALLEN: That's right.
CHANG: Just clean comedy.
ALLEN: I never used the word...
CHANG: What do you...
ALLEN: ...Controversial.
CHANG: What do you say to people out there who are listening...
ALLEN: Yeah.
CHANG: ...Or reading that quote...
Yeah
CHANG: ...And thinking to themselves, that sounds like some boring, toothless comedy.
ALLEN: OK. Here's what I would say.
CHANG: What do you say to them?
ALLEN: I would say to them, for you, that may be boring, toothless comedy. You have a huge audience out there. You only need 1- or 2% to be a success. Not everybody's going love me. But there is that 1- or 2% that would be like, hell yeah. I'm rolling with you. And I learned that at an early age. And by the way, that simple lesson made me a billionaire.
CHANG: You've been doing comedy since you were a kid. We've been talking about, you were on "Carson" when you were 18.
ALLEN: Yes.
CHANG: Can you just explain to me, like, over the years, over the course of your life...
ALLEN: Yeah.
CHANG: Why did you decide eventually to start leaning more into the business side of it all, instead of focusing on the craft of comedy itself and only that?
ALLEN: Ah. It's not show business. It's business show.
CHANG: OK. Your favorite line.
ALLEN: It is business show. That's what...
CHANG: Meaning...
ALLEN: Look, I've been able to sell 74 television shows. I have on more first-run shows than all the studios combined. I have on over 13 hours a day of television with my name on it. And that's important to me.
CHANG: Yeah.
ALLEN: Because my passion is to make sure that we own something as Black people in America.
CHANG: Right.
ALLEN: That we can control...
CHANG: That Black people not just make content. They own the content.
ALLEN: We own the content.
CHANG: Yeah.
ALLEN: You know, we have plenty of corporations out here who make money off of our style, our creativity, our swagger, but that's over. It's time for us to own it.
CHANG: I get that, and I get that that's a very important desire.
ALLEN: Yes.
CHANG: I also want to understand what kind of media mogul you want to be as that Black American. Why do I ask this? Because you have this long history of trying to buy media properties that are in decline, like BET and VH1. You also tried to buy Paramount before Skydance showed up. You just acquired this majority stake in BuzzFeed. So you do have this pattern of going after media platforms that are in distress. What is the strategy? Is it, you're actually trying to make these platforms better, or are you mainly just trying to grab up as much stuff as possible to grow your empire?
ALLEN: Well, yeah. It's both. I feel I can make them better, and you do need scale. I'm chasing Walt Disney. I'm chasing Rupert Murdoch. Those are the best of the best in media. I love business. I live for business. I don't smoke. I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I don't play golf. You know what I love to do?
CHANG: (Laughter).
ALLEN: I love business. I love it. I live it. I breathe it.
CHANG: I never thought of golf...
ALLEN: I eat it...
CHANG: ...As a vice.
ALLEN: ...Sleep it.
CHANG: Yeah. Yeah.
ALLEN: You never thought of what as golf?
CHANG: Golf as a vice.
ALLEN: Well, you're taking up time trying to get a white ball in the hole. Come on, now.
CHANG: (Laughter).
ALLEN: My passion is business. A lot of people buy businesses in the penthouse and take them to the lobby. I buy them in the lobby and take them to the penthouse.
CHANG: I do want to return to the reason that we are talking here today, and that is the cancellation of Stephen Colbert.
ALLEN: I had nothing to do with that.
CHANG: I know. You have called...
ALLEN: (Laughter).
CHANG: ...That cancellation a, quote...
ALLEN: I had nothing to do with that.
CHANG: ...You called it a, quote, "unfortunate event."
ALLEN: It was.
CHANG: So let me ask you this.
ALLEN: It was.
CHANG: What do we lose when someone like Stephen Colbert goes off the air?
ALLEN: Stephen Colbert is an American treasure. He is a phenomenal human being. Here's the good news. He owns his talent, and he has an audience that loves him. He just has to decide where he wants to plant his flag next. And quite frankly, there are so many places he can go. I would support him on anything he wants to do. He doesn't need me, but I would do it in a nanosecond.
CHANG: Maybe you need to invite him on "Comics Unleashed."
ALLEN: He's always invited.
CHANG: (Laughter).
ALLEN: And by the way, when he saw that I got the time period, he texted me, and he said, congratulations. I'm very happy for you. Don't you wish Johnny Carson could have witnessed this? And it brought tears to my eyes.
CHANG: Yeah, I bet.
ALLEN: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
CHANG: Byron Allen...
ALLEN: Baby...
CHANG: ...Host of "Comics Unleashed"...
ALLEN: With Byron Allen.
CHANG: ...On CBS.
ALLEN: The best of the best, baby.
CHANG: So great talking to you.
ALLEN: Oh, yeah, Ailsa. I loved this one.
CHANG: (Laughter).
ALLEN: This was good. This was confrontation. I felt like I was on "Jerry Springer."
CHANG: (Laughter).
ALLEN: Maury, pick it - hey, Ailsa, I'm not the baby daddy. Ailsa, this is not my baby, Ailsa. Ailsa.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
CHANG: We spoke to Byron Allen as part of NPR's Newsmakers video podcast. You can watch an extended interview on YouTube. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
